Our Guests: Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog & Ruth Thomson, SVP, Global Consumer Business, Cambridge Consultants

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Design Mind frogcast Ep.42 - Shifting from Performance to Outcomes

On this episode of the Design Mind frogcast, we’re talking about future-proofing products and services to connect the dots between creating experiences people love and contributing toward a more regenerative future for people and planet. 
Listen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the Design Mind frogcast on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Spotify</a> and anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Episode Transcript:
Design Mind frogcast 
Episode 42: Shifting from Performance to Outcomes 
Guests:  Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog &amp; Ruth Thomson, SVP, Global Consumer Business, Cambridge Consultants
[00:09] Elizabeth Wood: Welcome to the Design Mind frogcast. Each episode, we go behind the scenes to meet the people designing what’s next in the world of products, services and experiences, both here at frog and far, far outside the pond. I’m Elizabeth Wood.
[00:25] Elizabeth Wood: Today on our show, we’re talking about future-proofing products and services to connect the dots between creating experiences people love and contributing toward a more regenerative future for people and planet. Today’s guests, Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer at frog and Ruth Thomson, Senior Vice President at Cambridge Consultants, will be taking us through five key challenges they’ve identified businesses face when creating transformation in a more Connected World. They first explored these challenges over the summer as part of the <a href="https://cannes.frog.co/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Cannes Lions festival with guests from Nestlé, L’Oréal and Mercedes-Benz</a> among others. You can hear some of those discussions in our Cannes Lions bonus series from over the summer (<a href="https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-bonus-episode-voices-from-cannes-day-1">Day 1</a>, <a href="https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-bonus-episode-voices-from-cannes-day-2">Day 2</a>, <a href="https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-bonus-episode-voices-from-cannes-day-3">Day 3</a>, <a href="https://www.frog.co/designmind/design-mind-frogcast-bonus-episode-voices-from-cannes-day-4">Day 4</a>), available in the Design Mind frogcast feed anywhere you listen. But first, I’ll let our guests introduce themselves.
[01:15] Chiara Diana: I&#8217;m Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer at frog. frog is the creative consultancy firm that is part of Capgemini Invent. And through frog, we help our clients to bring to market innovative solutions that are tailored around the needs of the customer in order to drive new value for the business, for the humans and for the planet.
[01:37] Ruth Thomson: Hi, I&#8217;m Ruth Thomson. I&#8217;m a commercial SVP leading Cambridge Consultant’s business globally across consumer industrial and energy markets. <a href="https://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/home" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Cambridge Consultants</a> is part of the family of companies within Capgemini Invent alongside frog. Particularly, at Cambridge Consultants, we focus on disruptive innovation enabled by deep technology, so where you can bring truly disruptive change with innovative technology and science.
[02:04] Elizabeth Wood: To set the scene, let’s first address what we’re talking about when we talk about the <a href="https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world">Connected World</a>.
[02:10] Chiara Diana: Connected World for us is really a reality in which the humans, the human-built assets and the environment are connected one to another. And this is creating a platform for more informed, more efficient and more valuable interactions across all those parts for a broader collective benefit. This you might say is not new. Fifteen years ago, more or less, I would say, the concept of Internet of Things was born in a moment in which we started adding a lot of machines connected one to another. So the concept of a connected reality is not new at all, but it&#8217;s quite pervasive.
[02:46] Chiara Diana: We have a number of connected devices today, which is about double of the world’s population, and keeps increasing. Nevertheless, we have not been yet able to extract the value that is promised. The data that are generated from those connected artifacts remains for most of the cases untapped.
[03:07] Ruth Thomson: As Chiara says, I mean, this has been happening for a while. But you know, it&#8217;s becoming more and more pervasive, but why? You know, why now? I&#8217;d say there&#8217;s kind of three main reasons that are helping unlock this. Firstly, you know, the technology building blocks are available and extremely prevalent at very low cost now. If you think of things like kind of MEMS sensors, and the enablers for connectivity, these are now, you know, completely ubiquitous and available at very low cost.
[03:31] Ruth Thomson: A second point would be if you think about a connected ecosystem, you know, particularly for the consumer area, your phone is part of that system. And to most people that is effectively already there as part of the system. So you&#8217;ve got part of the system kind of for free in people&#8217;s pockets. So if you think about an enabler there and think about the additional cost, you&#8217;ve got part of the system there.
[03:51] Ruth Thomson: I think a third reason of why now is a consumer expectation. Connectivity is all around us, you know. Different sectors have adopted this at different stages. So for example, you know, sports and fitness has been doing this for really quite a long time. You know, the kind of whole movement of the quantitative self has been a pretty pervasive, so people are expecting to be able to track, monitor, understand. Even if you&#8217;re not in a B2C market, then your users are bringing expectations from their personal lives. And we&#8217;re seeing lots of different sectors adopting this over time. I&#8217;d say, you know, CPG sector is probably 10 years behind where sports and fitness are, but we&#8217;re seeing kind of them adopted, as well as into the healthcare and agricultural spaces.
[04:28] Chiara Diana: Yeah, and Ruth if I may add, I think that there is an additional factor, which is kind of changing the rules of the game into the space, which is a very different, a new consciousness on the scarcity of our resources—resources as humanity, resources as a planet. And this is both on the side of the environment, as well as on the side of the human resources. We hear all about SDG, Agenda 2023. Those are becoming guidelines for the governments and also for the organization to change the way in which they operate. So I truly believe that we are in a moment in which through more intelligent sensors, for example, you refer to agriculture, monitoring the soil, the plants, the weather, we can really build solutions that are optimizing the way in which we consume land, water or use pesticides.
[05:22] Chiara Diana: On the other side, if you think about remote patient monitoring, or digital augmented treatments, we&#8217;re really cutting the operational costs from the hospitals while providing more convenient care to the patients and better outcomes. Again, with less resources. So those are just two examples of how we can capitalize on the potential Connected World as a way to really design a more sustainable society for all of us.
[05:50] Elizabeth Wood: So if there’s such promise in using data and technology to contribute to more regenerative futures, what’s holding people back?
[05:57] Chiara Diana: Probably if we would have the answer, we would all be very rich. I would say that we know that this is an urgency because of the factors that we just mentioned. <a href="https://prod.ucwe.capgemini.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Intelligent-Products-Services-Report.pdf" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Almost 90% of the organization that we had the opportunity to speak with through the Capgemini Research Institute</a>, they say that they plan to offer intelligent services in the next five years. And they expect this to be so massive that in many cases, more than half of the revenues are expected to come from this part of the portfolio. So this is a massive industry shift that is planned for the next five years really now.
[06:34] Chiara Diana: Nevertheless, despite this imperative, only few of those organizations have scaled those use cases, the majority of them are stuck at proof of concept. So this means that it is an easy concept, but it&#8217;s really difficult to realize those intelligence solutions on top of this Connected World that we say is a platform for making them real.
[06:55] Chiara Diana: So what we did in the last years as we brought our capabilities together, has been really to investigate. What are the struggles that our client face? And kept discussing those iteratively, more recently, during our <a href="https://cannes.frog.co/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">frog week at the Cannes Lions</a>, where we have some of the front runners such as Mercedes, Nestlé or L&#8217;Oreal, discussing with us: Where are their main struggles? Where do they face blockers in realizing the true value of this potential? So we identified kind of five, that we call them challenges. Those are representing what is preventing those organizations to realize value from those convergent portfolio. Sometimes those are very technical, sometimes are organizational, and sometimes even more cultural ones. So having those in clear sight, even just understanding that those challenges could emerge, is enabling us to put in place the right strategies to really unlock sustainable success.
[07:57] Elizabeth Wood: During our conversation, Chiara and Ruth identified five key challenges that are holding organizations back from realizing the Connected World. The first has to deal with a disconnect between what technology can do and what customers actually want technology to do.
[08:13] Chiara Diana: The first challenge is that tech excitement outpaces customer benefit. I would say it&#8217;s really easy to fall in love, us as individuals and us as an organization, with the latest technologies. But if you think of a technology or technology and a product are two very different things. So we have seen, we have seen in history, I was doing some research or preparing for this panel, looking back at 2015, we saw several companies heavily investing to incorporate those latest technologies into their business and facing big failure in the marke due to the lack of traction. I was scanning the 3D TVs. You might all remember them and actually no one ever bought them. or the Google Glasses, which probably were a little bit too early to be adopted. Or the case for QR codes that only really got traction when the context of the COVID pandemic really made the case for alternatives ways of interacting with product.
[09:12] Chiara Diana: So linking what is possible to what is valuable is one of the really core challenges of innovation if we sum it up. And this is even harder in the moment in which we want to play in territories that are new—when what you&#8217;re proposing is not something that you have a benchmark to measure against. So in those cases, it&#8217;s really hard to anticipate what success could be.
[09:37] Chiara Diana: And so we really need to take an opportunity to be rigorous in the way in which we think about our business case—really transparent on the assumptions that we&#8217;re using to feed the business case and really honest on the areas where we lack information. Because then we can be really obsessed and going deeper with our customers to fill the gap. Understanding behaviors, understanding needs, understanding drivers and barriers to change to adopt something that is new, are really important steps and that we need to put in this kind of due diligence at the beginning of an innovation process.
[10:15] Chiara Diana: Don&#8217;t fall in love with the idea at the beginning, iterate the product after you define an MVP and even validate alternative go-to-market options, alternative business model for a same solution. We really need to embrace all those openness and uncertainties and put them into the innovation process.
[10:35] Ruth Thomson: As Chiara says it&#8217;s very easy for people to get carried away with the technology. You know, there&#8217;s some exciting stuff out there. And there&#8217;s a lot of companies being pushed to, you know, embrace digital and connectivity. So we get clients coming to us saying you know, kind of help them create this digitally enabled product service. And my first question is always why? Why do you want to do this? Let&#8217;s first understand that value that you&#8217;re trying to deliver for yourselves as a business and kind of for the end users, the consumers or other stakeholders. And then let&#8217;s structure the value proposition and kind of the solution that we&#8217;re trying to build around that that underpinned by that why? The answer to the why is going to be different for the different categories for different brands, and for different types of products. So it&#8217;s really about understanding that pain point and opportunity area and keeping that understanding at the heart of the development.
[11:25] Elizabeth Wood: The next challenge addresses the new costs that come with innovation. Here’s Ruth to explain.
[11:31] Ruth Thomson: The second challenge is about how unexpected costs are going to erode your return on investment. I think as companies get into doing digital and connected products, I think it&#8217;s really important to acknowledge that this is gonna be different to maybe what you&#8217;ve done before. You know, particularly if we focus on a physical product company, you know, now embracing kind of digital and connectivity, this is going to be different, both in terms of technology and the development, you know, the supply chain, how you go to market. You&#8217;re going to need to have different metrics and different ways of acknowledging the <a href="https://www.frog.co/designmind/the-business-value-of-customer-experience">ROI</a> compared to some of your more traditional physical products–and you need to set expectations accordingly. This is going to be a big shift.
[12:10] Ruth Thomson: So let&#8217;s maybe think about some of the types of metrics you might use. So for example, at the start of the development, you know, CPGs, are used to launching a new SKU multiple times a year. There&#8217;s a very fast pace to innovation. And this can be still fast, but not as fast, particularly not at the beginning. So kind of managing expectations and setting KPIs for kind of understanding that this might be going to take longer.
[12:32] Ruth Thomson: Similarly, if you think maybe further along at the end of the development, thinking about maybe some of the costs that might be coming along, and some of the systems you need to set up in place to make sure that this launch is going to be successful in the market. For example, you know, maybe you&#8217;ve got a physical product as part of the connected ecosystem. So you&#8217;re going to obviously need to set up the physical supply chain to do this, but it&#8217;s going to be very different to your traditional products. You’re now dealing kind of with electronics and different forms of manufacturing. You’re also going to think about how to maintain that digital service ongoing. You&#8217;re going to need to have to think about customer support. You know, that&#8217;s going to be quite different for a connected product where someone&#8217;s calling up saying, “Oh, I can&#8217;t connect to my device” versus maybe asking for a return product of a physical device.
[13:14] Chiara Diana: Yeah, maybe as you&#8217;re teasing that, Ruth, I think it’s worth to put in clear sight that there is a cost associated to the organizational change, and bringing the organization to be something that is very different from the current today in order to deliver this radically new propositions within their portfolio.
[13:35] Chiara Diana: I think that there is an element when we think about return on investment, which is important to consider as we approach these individual innovations. There is the potential to scale connected solution across a broad portfolio instead of considering those as atomized and independent innovations. And this is enabling to, let&#8217;s say, distribute the cost of innovation across multiple assets, if we are able to plan in a kind of coordinated way. So remaining open to scale, remaining open to platform, to a new platform that could morph and become more flexible or remain more flexible, I think is an interesting element to consider in the moment in which decisions to invest are made. Now it&#8217;s not fully formed as a thinking. But I think that there is an element of interest in the idea of platform-zing those connected investments beyond the one single item in the portfolio.
[14:32] Ruth Thomson: Yep, you&#8217;d need to balance that with sorting out a full platform across a multinational company versus the ability to be able to experiment and kind of test isn&#8217;t it? So it&#8217;s how on earth do you get that balance? Right?
[14:44] Chiara Diana: Yeah, I think it’s an interesting tension together with the you know, experiment, go to market fast, learn and adjust to the definition of the full platform. What&#8217;s the balance that you need to find? That also depends probably from who you are as an organization and what your ambitions are in terms of the portfolio that you&#8217;re aiming to build.
[15:05] Ruth Thomson: Cause the initial cost is going to be higher the first time you do it, but you can think about care. So you can amortize that cost across the platform, if you could set that up effectively.
[15:16] Elizabeth Wood: We’re going to take a short break. When we return, Chiara and Ruth will share three more pitfalls that organizations can fall into when future-proofing their product and service strategies.
BREAK: 
[15:30] Jeff Hebert: Hi I’m Jeff Hebert, Global Head of Intelligent Products and Services, Intelligent Industry at Capgemini Invent, as well as president of Synapse Product Development and the lead author of <a href="https://go.frog.co/making-connectivity-matter" target="_blank" rel="noopener">frog’s latest Chief Challenges report ‘Making Connectivity Matter.</a>’ Featuring insights by industry experts from across the Capgemini Invent family, including frog and Synapse, and with real world case studies, including <a href="https://www.frog.co/work/petivity-transforms-pet-care-with-ai">Nestlé Purina</a> and <a href="https://www.frog.co/work/harnessing-data-for-leaner-and-greener-future-of-mobility">Volvo</a>, this report breaks down the changing landscape of challenges and opportunities associated with creating connected products and services. Together, we explore the significant value that connectivity can bring and share perspectives on the ways businesses can successfully journey into increasingly intelligent offerings. Read the report to learn about building the connected products and services and ecosystems of tomorrow. Check this episode&#8217;s show notes for a link to <a href="https://go.frog.co/making-connectivity-matter" target="_blank" rel="noopener">download ‘Making Connectivity Matter</a>.’

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Chiara Diana

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On this episode of the Design Mind frogcast, we&#8217;re exploring the potential for connected products, services and ecosystems that positively impact people and planet. With a focus on feasibility, desirability, viability and sustainability, our guests from across frog and Capgemini Invent share what it takes to innovate in this space, gain competitive advantage and sidestep the pitfalls of connecting for connectivity&#8217;s sake.
Today&#8217;s episode features the authors of a new frog report: <a href="https://go.frog.co/making-connectivity-matter" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Chief Challenges 06: Making Connectivity Matter</a>.
Listen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the Design Mind frogcast on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Spotify</a> and anywhere you listen to podcasts.

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Client Story

Our Guests: Kristin Slater, Senior Manager, loT Products, Petivity, Nestlé Purina; Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer, frog; Jeff Hebert, Global Head of Intelligent Products and Services in Intelligent Industry, Capgemini Invent

On this episode, we’re talking about connected products and services that perfect customer experience while driving new business value. More specifically, we’re starting with a focus on some very special members of our families: our pets. Recently, our team worked with Nestlé Purina to create an intelligent litter box system that collects and shares data about your cat’s health and wellness. Of course, this use case is just one prime example of using data and technology to improve everyday experiences and better our lives in the process. Joining us for this discussion and more today are Chiara Diana, Chief Design Officer at frog, Kristin Slater, Senior Manager, loT Products, Petivity at Nestlé Purina and Jeff Hebert, Global Head of Intelligent Products and Services in Intelligent Industry for Capgemini Invent and President of Synapse Product Development.
Listen to the podcast episode and watch the full video below. You can also find the Design Mind frogcast on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/design-mind-frogcast/id1541644073" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5mxbuRY6KtBwIrNhWhu0sx" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Spotify</a> and anywhere you listen to podcasts.  
Visit to learn more about the <a href="https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world">Connected World</a>.

<a href="https://www.frog.co/services/connected-world">Learn more about the Connected World</a>

frog Milan hosts 3rd Annual Global Children’s Designathon, working with kids aged 7 - 12 on solving big questions around the important issue of Water through design, play and prototyping.

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When Children Design a Better Future

Last year I had the opportunity to attend the Global Children’s Designathon in Amsterdam with my son, where we joined <a href="https://www.designathon.nl/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Designathon Works</a> in confronting the issue of a Circular Economy and Sustainable Consumption with design thinking. The experience was so stimulating for both me and my son that I thought of bringing it to Milan. I knew that frog could add a lot of value to the program by applying the tools and techniques used in our everyday work, while also enriching our methodology by taking inspiration from how children approach design thinking.
This year, with the help of a team of passionate colleagues and external experts, frog organized the Milan chapter of the Designathon, bringing kids from different schools around the Milan region to work and play together in the frog studio in order to tackle one of the most pressing issues of our time: water.
For our workshop on water, we worked with 29 children aged 7 to 12, from 21 different schools, neighborhoods and towns. The goal of the workshop was to engage kids in working together to solve problems using their imaginations, and empowering them to influence the world they live in. And we couldn’t have been more excited by how each team gave their all to this cause.

<h2>Inspire &amp; Research: Making an Abstract Problem Relevant to Daily Life</h2>
We began by asking a series of questions that pushed the children to consider how they interact with water on a daily basis. Their answers were honest but practical, imaginative but tangible: brushing teeth, bathing, a clean shirt that needed washing, dinner that needed cooking, plants that needed watering.

The kids then gathered in small groups to explore the ask, focus on a specific aspect of the problem and reflect on impacted users, before diving in to identify solutions. With the help of our design, education and water experts, the kids received answers to their technical questions and guidance on the process. These facilitators and panelists, such as Massimiliano Vidiri (<a href="https://www.mmspa.eu/wps/portal/mmspa/en/home" target="_blank" rel="noopener">MM),</a> the “Water Guru,” were key to the success of the day by providing teams with facts and details on how water systems work, applying vertical expertise with imaginative inspiration.

<h2>Ideate, Sketch &amp; Make: Visualizing to Hypothesize, Building to Prove Ideas</h2>
With a clear understanding of the issue, the children were able to begin ideating. This is where the kids’ imaginations ran wild in coming up with fantastical solutions to the problem of providing clean, accessible water to everyone. And from these imaginative concepts, our groups moved on to sketching and prototyping in order to bring their ideas to with their very own hands. Using wood, cardboard, LEDs, sensors and other various recycled materials, the children built up their inventions, further refining the concepts through prototyping.

<h2>Show &amp; Tell: Nurturing Imagination to Make a Difference</h2>
The final concepts and prototypes show the intricate thinking and processes behind each group’s ideas. These children were able to think and ideate complex systems: their inventions are not only objects per se, but so much more. They are interactions among people, animals, plants and other objects that connect systemically with each other to help the greater good.

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<h2>Check out all of the ideas!</h2>
By bringing frog’s human-centered design sensibility to children, we were able to play with possible futures. As designers, we aim to be curious, inspiring and thoughtful in order to solve pressing world issues every day, but it is the next generation that will inevitably have to confront these issues directly. Many children already possess these qualities, and only need the right provocations and tools to begin thinking, questioning, and solving for the future they deserve. In engaging each other through ideation, sketching and prototyping, they build the confidence in their ability to imagine and give form to the future they will live in.
This year’s edition of the Global Children Designathon saw 600 children (aged 7 to 12) in 18 cities around the world (including Amsterdam, Milan, Nairobi, Singapore, Vancouver and Dubai) working in parallel to create solutions for pressing issues around the cleanliness and availability of water.
The day after the workshop, the organizers presented a summative report of ideas from all 600 participants of the event at the Annual Meeting of the Global Future Councils at the World Economic Forum, “The Global Voices of the Next Generation on: WATER.” This report synthesizes their visions and ideas for creating a better future.

frog Milan would like to thank everyone that made this year’s event possible: 
Chiara Diana, our Milan host 
Local sponsor <a href="http://www.metropolitanamilanese.it/pub/page/MM?url=/pub/page/MM&amp;lgrfnbr=1">MM Spa 
</a>Our facilitators Catalina Castellanos, Stefano Cardini, Mariano Cucchi, Sara Manzini, Stefania Marcoli, Elena Marengoni, Adriana Odor, Federica Pascotto, Marina Rachello, Silvia Remotti, Carlo Riganti, Gioia Rossi, Massimiliano Vidiri 
Our panelists Francesco Bombardi, Matteo Penzo, Matteo Ragni, Nicola Colturani 
The initiators and organizer <a href="https://www.designathon.nl/">Designathon Works 
</a>And especially, our wonderful participants.
We’d also like to say a special thank you to the frog Milan team, especially Elena Marengoni and Sara Manzini for helping the workshop synthesis and collection of insights during the day, and Catalina Castellanos for taking amazing pictures.

As Creative Director and Experience Strategy lead at frog, Chiara is passionate about shaping innovation for complex product-service ecosystems, helping organizations embrace change and drive positive social transformations through design. She has worked with corporate clients including UBS, BT and Novartis, and international organizations including WHO, UNICEF and GSMA. She is a mother of two and the co-founder of Spazio, a magazine on creativity for parents and kids.

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